Question on Storage and Access of firearms

[Col]

here in south wales my good lady and myself both have FAC,but we were told to get seperate cabinets or to put steel ropes through the trigger guards to prevent either of us having access to weapons we dont have authority to have.
It was easier to get seperate cabinets, and no comebacks with the law

[ovenpaa]

Our FEO was the one who suggested shared access and the wording on our FAC's is identical other than the FAC they refer to. This is the exact wording and spelling.

6. The holder of this Firearm Certificate may possess firearm(s) and ammunition held by the holder of Bedfordshire Firearm certificate number xx/x/xxxxxx/xxxx

I do despair sometimes, I would have hoped they worked to a standard set of guide lines and such interpretations were not necessary or even reasonable.

[bobbob]

Our FEO was the one who suggested shared access and the wording on our FAC's is identical other than the FAC they refer to. This is the exact wording and spelling.

6. The holder of this Firearm Certificate may possess firearm(s) and ammunition held by the holder of Bedfordshire Firearm certificate number xx/x/xxxxxx/xxxx

I do despair sometimes, I would have hoped they worked to a standard set of guide lines and such interpretations were not necessary or even reasonable.

That's what Bnz and I have done. It just makes life easier. If for instance we are selling one through a shop or taking one in for work to be done, either one of us can do it. The only downside is having to pay twice for a variation so we try to get our money's worth if we do apply for one.

[ovenpaa]

Bobob, does that mean you both have exactly the same holding on your FAC's? We have separate firearms listed so if one of us submits for 1:1 we only pay once, The rifles and ammunition listed on Christel's FAC are all different to mine.

[bobbob]

Bobob, does that mean you both have exactly the same holding on your FAC's? We have separate firearms listed so if one of us submits for 1:1 we only pay once, The rifles and ammunition listed on Christel's FAC are all different to mine.

Our licences are basically duplicated. For instance, I have 600 rounds of .308 and Bnz also has 600 rounds allocated, so double the usual amount. It's the same for all of them.

[Fullbore]

Well I contacted our licensing department and the following is my reply (with my email question below it)

Dear Sir,
 
Yes you would. Being a certificate holder you are required to ensure that non-authorised individuals gain access to your firearms. So in the case you have described, you could be authorised and your wife not, so steps would need to be taken so your wife cannot gain access to your rifles.
 
Separate cabinets is the ideal solution but we may entertain ways of securing your rifle inside the cabinet in a manner that precludes your wife from accessing.
Hope that helps,
Derek Fletcher
Assistant Firearms Licensing Officer


.


To: #Firearms Licensing Bureau
Subject: Security requirements query

Hi,
 
I have a general enquiry as regards security requirements:
 
Myself and my wife hold shotgun certificates and own a shotgun each which is held in an approved cabinet (with lockable ammunition box) but i have just taken up target shooting at an approved club and have the intention of applying for a section 1 firearms certificate after my probation period plus my shotgun certificate is due for renewal in October but my wife is not sure she will be taking up the target shooting fulltime with me and as such not sure she will be applying for a section 1 and my question is would i need to hold any section 1 firearms in a seperate cabinet which she would not have access to if she does not apply for a license?
 
I have looked through the Home Office firearms law guidelines and there is a paragraph in there stating the following:
 
19.17
The term “unauthorised access” has been held to include the constructive possession that can occur where persons other than the certificate holder have access
to the keys for security devices, as well as access gained by criminal entry to the premises etc. Thus any keys to any security device should be kept secure, with access limited to authorised persons. This is especially important if children are in the house. Knowledge by an unauthorised person of the location of the keys or to the combination to the locks may lead to a breach of the statutory security condition. In the case of Regina v Chelmsford Crown Court, Ex parte Farrer (2000)
 
it was agreed that deliberately providing information of the whereabouts of the keys was an offence. It was “reasonably practicable” for Mr Farrer
not to tell his mother where the keys were kept in this case. With regard to shared security, such as a firearm and a shot gun certificate holder sharing a cabinet, separate security provisions to prevent unauthorised access to firearms once within the cabinet or primary security measure, should be made.
Devices such as lockable high tensile steel cable are considered suitable for this purpose.
 
Could you tell me what your acceptable standard would be please so that i can have the correct security requirements in place for my application.
 
Regards
 


So not really a straight answer as expected, they may entertain it, they may not

[ovenpaa]

Hmm... they do tend to give short answers in my experience, so now you need to ask 'Will the use of a lockable high tensile steel cable secured to a suitable point within the cabinet satisfy your requirements' or words to that effect.

I certainly think you are going to have to add some form of fixing point in the cabinet, also unless you have a HUGE cabinet you are rapidly going to run out of room once you have your .308 target rifle, plus your .303 service rifle that suddenly appealed, and that .22LR 10/22 plus.....

:lol:

[Fullbore]

Hmm... they do tend to give short answers in my experience, so now you need to ask 'Will the use of a lockable high tensile steel cable secured to a suitable point within the cabinet satisfy your requirements' or words to that effect.

I certainly think you are going to have to add some form of fixing point in the cabinet, also unless you have a HUGE cabinet you are rapidly going to run out of room once you have your .308 target rifle, plus your .303 service rifle that suddenly appealed, and that .22LR 10/22 plus.....

:lol:

I'm surprised it took you so long to bring up about needing a larger cabinet for your additional rifle suggestions .........

Yeah i had already thought about getting a bigger one as ours is only a 5 gun which already houses 2 shotguns but originally i had thought of selling this one to make room for a larger one, i will have to have a look at whats on offer at the show at the weekend, i'm tempted by a digital keypad lock due to having to keep keys away from unauthorised people too.

[ovenpaa]

We have a seven gun cabinet, designed for long 'scoped rifles, to get five rifles in I have to leave the bipods off and take care when I put the rifles in or take them out. As a consequence we have a second cabinet for shotguns and service rifles and things are still tight.

If you change your cabinet or add another one your FEO should look on that as a change in security and come out to take a look,