The Shooting SHED ten day bore cleaning comparative.

[Mike357]

Excellent write up and great to see facts and evidence backing it up. Look at and thread on any forum about bore cleaning and and you'll see so many different opinions but no facts.

I would be interested to see how this product works in copper free barrels such as 22s and under levers, is that possible?

[ovenpaa]

Dougan,

I was talking to someone recently about the merits of various cleaners and we both agreed short of access to electon microscopes and exotic sectioning and polishing equipment we have no true idea of how good a job of cleaning we do.

I have so many on the shelf that I have started in the past and pushed to one side in disgust, the two exceptions being Forest Milfoam and KG12. I am on my third can of Milfoam and I alternate it with KG12 and finish with Carb-Out which is all but empty so needless to say I was fairly confident my AI barrel was going to be clean when I first tested with C2R. The new product took so much copper out and moving to water wet patches took more and more carbon out with every stroke. I was hacked off to say the least. equally with the S&L has always left a slight grey marker on patches yet for the first time ever they were clean so it makes me wonder what we have been paying for over the years.

For me the product has worked very well and I have cleaned several rifles over the last few weeks with it, equally it had been out for test with a good selection of competition and club shooters with the vast majority agreeing it works better than anything they have used before. No doubt there will be doubters when a new product hits the market and there are sure to be people who use 'xyz' and it is the best thing ever. The fact is nothing has given the same results for me as C2R both in tests and real world cleaning and that applies to everything from competition rifles with 35 shots down the barrel to 100 year old service rifles.

The product needs time to work like any other so for competition days I would say patch through a couple of times with C2R, leave it for 30-40 minutes if possible then patch straight through with water whetted patches followed by dry patches, You should be able to do this with 6-7 patches at most and this should not be limited to competition shooters either. Anyone can use it.

Mike, it does not dissolve lead or Moly however it seems to get under it quite nicely so again it has to be worth a try. I have a very detailed spread sheet that is the support behind the tests which I can release once it has been tidied up.

[EagerNoSkill]

Hi All

Dougan some good questions!

THANK YOU : SHOOTING SHED
Firstly I want to thank David and Cristel. They are truly honest people that would not promote or sell a product that they wouldn’t test and trust themselves. You all won’t believe the grilling and sceptical looks my every assertion of C2R performance and features was met by.
I know to the parents their baby is beautiful - but to others……

David and Christel did what I had in the past – but since they are not biased it was ideal that they validate. I must admit I got plenty enjoyment in seeing Dav’s disbelief changing – sometimes rapidly and sometimes more gradually as certain features / benefits become more apparent or relevant.
You don’t want to know how many times Christel vented her disbelief at the “performance” of the supposed product we have all used in good faith for years!

TESTING PROCEDURES
Frankly after these tests – my level of trust in most products flogged to the shooting fraternity is very low.
These test were designed in a manner that you can validate for yourselves the effectiveness of any product.
An interesting thing that was noted during testing that certain products really get "vibrant colours" very quickly. We are all conditioned to think "aaahhh - look its working". Yet, as this tests show, certain products removed absolutely negligible amount of copper.
Now if a supposed “copper solvent” cannot remove copper in a pristine environment, with unhindered access to the bullet’s surface….. how is it going to remove copper from a barrel that has sandwich like layers of metal fouling, carbon fouling – both soft and hard!
Our tests validate that several "products" would require 10 times plus the amount of time and effort to remove the same amount of fouling as C2R.

OLD RIFLES
They can truly benefit from a thorough clean - since excessive copper fouling will damage the bullet and disturb external ballistics. The decision point is what level of fouling destroys the bullet integrity and flight characteristics versus exposing some pitting that may not look pretty yet not have the same detrimental impact on accuracy.
Most military rifles can get a dramatic boost by simply removing a quarter inch off the muzzle and putting a decent crown back on.
C2R can be left in for weeks without risk to barrel metal. My own testing has show that the optimal point is +- 2 weeks.
At this point the C2R has dislodged so much crud that a clean out and product refresh just re-boosts the performance.

Regardless of the above because C2R is so effective ..we recommend that since C2R is so good at cleaning that the rifle barrel get coated with a light layer of rust resistant oil to prevent rust. The crud that current products leave in a barrel actually perversely acts a a protective layer!

COPPER and CARBON Removal
C2R is very quick and since it does both Copper and Carbon it is ideal for the quick clean - since the C2R remains in the barrel cleaning and dislodging. Most users that have pre-tested this have commented on this very feature – simplicity of use and dual function.

RANGE CLEANING
When you have to use multiple products – say within any given 30 minutes period there is a certain amount of time that nothing is occurring - because you cleaning out the first product to place in the second. It is dead cleaning time.
You need 2 or 3 products to do the job.
CR2 requires some C2R and water (like 20 mls of water to wet your patches)
A really nice feature of C2R is that is totally clear. So frankly whatever you see coming out is what was in the barrel and you know you are dislodging.
Certain other products – focussed on carbon removal - specifically are so dirty that you don’t know what you get out and have to go on trust.

Tim - ENS

[ovenpaa]

I would be interested to see how this product works in copper free barrels such as 22s and under levers, is that possible?

Mike, if you are happy to test I will get a bottle posted out to you to see how it performs.

[Primer]

I would be interested to see how this product works in copper free barrels such as 22s and under levers, is that possible?

Mike, if you are happy to test I will get a bottle posted out to you to see how it performs.

How about .22 barrels that fire CCI mini mags as those bullets are copper coated, or is the copper coating so thin that it doesn't create buildup in the barrel (i probably fire 200-300 rounds per session) ? I currently just use Napier gun cleaner and a bore snake.

I must say it's very disappointing to see the Napier product didn't do squat, are they selling expensive bottles of water.

[M99]

Right.

Ive just out of intetest cleaned a 'clean' barrel from my 223 remi. Cleaned and stored a few weeks back. I was VERY surprised at the amount of residue on the patches. Now off to do the rest of them and see what it shifts.

Mike

[Sandyman]

Cool for that i'll go and pester mike again!
Tony

[ovenpaa]

Mike, the impressive part is when you put the water dampened patches through. C2R is very slippery and I suspect what happens is the copper is dissolved/broken down along with the carbon fouling but the patch slides over it when passed through/ C2R is 100% water soluble so passing a water patch through removes the C2R residue and then picks up the carbon as the patch is no longer as well lubricated if that makes sense.

I used Napier for quite a while, it seems to remove black stuff which must be carbon but it certainly did not have any impact on the copper, all it did was preserve the bullets perfectly. One thing that is important to remember is this was my test with my process and it is probably flawed in some way however if this is the case the 'flaw' was carried across to all products. The one product that really surprised me is the KG-12 as I really expected it to perform better than it did.

The 'rattle' test is going to be the telling one I think.

[Dougan]

Thanks for the answers Dave and Tim - That's reassured me that I can use it on all my FB rifles

Interesting about using water on patches; this is something I've not done before (usually use a tad of oil), but don't mind trying something new...and I'm not worried about rusting, as I always, and will continue to leave the barrel and chamber oiled while the rifle is away, and then patch it out the night before I use it.

So when is this stuff going on sale officially?

[1066]

That looks like an very fair test Dave - Something that can actually be measured. I can't wait to try this stuff, over the years I have tried all sorts, starting Youngs 303 emulsifying oil (Because my Dad used to use it, and it still reminds me of how a gun room should smell) I'm currently using Proshot which seems to work quite well (but then, how do you tell)