The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

sim covered the shop part, as you being a member of a HO approved club, even though you aren't in it, you would be covered by it in a gunshop.

bigfathairybiker wrote:So, basically if I touch any firearm which is not on my licence I am in possesion of it.
Which would mean I could not hold a gun in a shop until its details have been entered on my licence.

No, because there are exemptions under various Acts depending on circumstances, from requiring a certificate, except for the three gun types mentioned.

bigfathairybiker wrote:Also, as you mentioned, you dont even need to be holding a firearm to be in possesion, so if a friend popped round whilst I had my rifle out for cleaning, he would also be in possession of it and would be breaking the law!!!

Again no. Your friend would not have custody or control, so no. Likewise, if you then let him hold it and look at it, again he would be exempted from requiring a certificate by the virtues of the FAA 1988.

Did you read the thread before posting....?

Posted same time as Stuart...

I did read the stuff, just didn't understand what the hell it all was supposed to mean!

I prefer simple statements like:-

"It is ok by law to handle a gun in a shop or at a club or if someone hands it to you".
Instead of "this act , section 2 , subsection 4, whereas , therefore, wherein, etc etc "

So to summarise:-

Section 1, 5 and LBP/LBR :- Not allowed to touch.
Everything else is.

But, re reading the posts, it appears that even in a shop you must still be a member of a club if holding a firearm but not a shotgun.

Or have I read that bit wrong. Again, being mixed up with other statements and legal waffle it clouds the subject.

Mark

You do know that the title of the book "50 Shades of Grey" was inspired by UK firearms legislation?

FYI, its my understanding that the only absolute possession offences for firearms (i.e. no defence) are for S5/Prohibited guns and if the person is themselves prohibited under s21?? AFAIK there are no mandatory sentences for any offences commited with S1 or S2 guns.....

This S1 shotgun/LBF question comes up every now and again and considering how many of those types of firearms are out there and as there have been ZERO court cases for the simple 'temporary possession' alone, i'd say its pointless thinking about it, you're just going to add/lose grey hairs!

If you're in a club/RFD a sellers house and they think you can't even touch them, don't. If they think you need a slot to do so, make sure you have the slot. If they think you can handle them, knock yourself out.

I know the CPS love a firearms conviction but would it really be in the public interest to press a case when the only 'offence' is someone with an FAC pawing a S1 shotgun/LBF in a club/gun shop??

It is definitely something that needs clearing up with any consolidation Act.

Blackstuff wrote: FYI, its my understanding that the only absolute possession offences for firearms (i.e. no defence) are for S5/Prohibited guns and if the person is themselves prohibited under s21?? AFAIK there are no mandatory sentences for any offences commited with S1 or S2 guns.....

...

It is definitely something that needs clearing up with any consolidation Act.

No, possession of a s1 firearm, s2 shotgun and s1 ammunition, without a certificate or by way of legislated exemption, are still offences of strict liability, as you said, no defence.

Mandatory sentencing is something different. It exists as you state, for possession of s5 prohibited, but also for offences under s16 to s20, as amended by the CJA 2003 and s24 as amended by VCR 2006.

Cleaning up the legislation is long over due..... With appropriate caveats!

Interesting.... So whats the score with someone without a certificate coming across a S2 shotgun (for example) thats been forgotten in a wood/on a shoot, putting the gun in the car and driving it to a police station?

Blackstuff wrote:Interesting.... So whats the score with someone without a certificate coming across a S2 shotgun (for example) thats been forgotten in a wood/on a shoot, putting the gun in the car and driving it to a police station?

Personally I wouldn't do it. I'd take it to an RFD or just notify the police it was there and let them deal with it.

Outsider wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:Interesting.... So whats the score with someone without a certificate coming across a S2 shotgun (for example) thats been forgotten in a wood/on a shoot, putting the gun in the car and driving it to a police station?

Personally I wouldn't do it. I'd take it to an RFD or just notify the police it was there and let them deal with it.

Strongly suggest leaving it and calling pol regardless, unless you KNOW its origin. A random gun lying around could be evidence in a crime.

Outsider wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:Interesting.... So whats the score with someone without a certificate coming across a S2 shotgun (for example) thats been forgotten in a wood/on a shoot, putting the gun in the car and driving it to a police station?

Personally I wouldn't do it. I'd take it to an RFD or just notify the police it was there and let them deal with it.

How would you get it to the RFD??

I know of a dog walker that found a shotgun propped up by a tree and just took it to the local police station. They took her details and a statement of how she found it and that was the last she heard. I said she should have waited the 6 months then rang them up to see if anyone had claimed it and if not she should claim it!