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FredB wrote:The basic assumption that a single organisation would be a good thing is wrong. If we had it, the moaners would be asking for devolution. The strength of the shooting sports lies in the diverse nature of what we do---we should recognise this as a potential strength, not a problem and build on it. What we have today is a culture of complainers, who want to snipe at "the other lot". Target rifle shooters call the Historical shooters "the funnies" and resent the presence of the clay shooters at Bisley. Pistol and Gallery Rifle shooters complain about Target Rifle shooters receiving a better service and facilities and so on. If we have enemies, all this serves them well and benefitsd us in no way. Join an association and make it strong. Most complainers about the NRA are not members and most of the stories that circulate, in my club at least, are pure and nasty fiction.
The BSSC is a forum for the National Organisations to talk together, exchange views and seek to understand each other. Our strength lies in the individual organisations. Join one and if you don't like it seek a position of influence and change it from the inside. Certain members appear to be doing just that at the NRA at present---judge them at the end of the re-shuffle, not part way through.
Fred
I understand your point of view, but if we have culture of complainers - my question is, "What caused this to be?"
To me be it seems this "culture" has come about through the fractious nature of shooting in the UK. We do not seem to be pulling in the same direction, hence the sniping at each other.
I don't understand why a properly thought out organisation that caters for and promotes all forms of shooting is something to be afraid of. I can't see how all the different shooting organisations in the UK working to their own agenda helps improve the situation for all shooters.
Completely agree with Sandgroper..... fragmentation = slow suicide. Being under a single banner does NOT mean that one group is deemed any less than the other.... IN FACT its the non-shooting public and politicians that must see ALL shooters as '1 body' in order to take real notice of us.
We have only ourselves to blame if we snipe at each other to our own detriment.... the public and politicians only see shooters not Clay shooters , game shooters etcetc
If its modelled on the NRA it will need more than teeth.
It will need integrity, vision, leadership and the organisation being seen as greater than individuals and its role being to serve its members. These are all things lacking in the NRA at present, but they are the foundation of a truly national organisation.
Come on Bambi get some
Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad
In an ideal world it would great to start from scratch. :shakeshout:
In a real world situation it's more Darwinian in that the strongest organisation will survive. The question would be which ones do we let go and which one do we support? The problem is we come back to support along tribal lines and bickering amongst ourselves. :cool2:
Now if BASC and the NRA were to merge - BASC's infrastructure and member base coupled with the NRA's name and history - we might have something. The problem still comes back to leadership and vision.
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.”
As the NRA is no longer represented here, this is just me.
I have never heard a TR shooter call the historics "the funnies". I have never heard a TR shooter resent the shotgunners (have you seen the cars they drive - they are mostly loaded in a way TR shooters aren't, and the money is wonderful). I can't comment on the negative views of other disciplines - I'm TR through and through. I agree we are fractured, but ramming different types of shooting together is a bit like getting lawn tennis, real tennis, table tennis, badminton, squash, lacrosse, hockey, hurling, shinty, ice hockey, baseball and cricket under one organisation. All of those have as their basic characteristic that they use an implement to hit a moving object. Shooting uses an implement to hit an object (which may or may not be moving). I submit that we are more diverse than the pastimes I listed. We have a common political and media problem that the chattering classes and their media friends see us as an easy target and most politicians don't have the balls to tell that group they are talking rubbish. But that is a different issue from coherent organisation in sporting terms.
Well if we all have a can't do attitude then nothing will be achieved.
I also think its a perception thing amongst shooters, you seem to see shooting by discipline. I and most of the shooters I've known over the years and I deal with dozens a week, see it from the perspective of people who shoot. We shoot many different disciplines. I shoot military, small bore, 7.3 pistol, BPCR, ML, clay pigeons, live quarry, air rifle/Bell target and I'm a collector amongst other shooting interests and I do all these almost on a monthly basis. OK I may be a jack of many trades and a master of none but I'm into shooting and owning guns as are all the other shooters I know. To cover all these interests we have the NRA, NSRA, CPA, HBSA, BASC, MLAGB plus sundry other specialist clubs.
From a shooters point of view that is lunacy
That is the fundamental attitudinal problem with the organisations, the national bodies represent disciplines, not shooters and gunowners.
Its is about people not competitions or disciplines.
Until our sector gets that separation clear and responds to it we will never get any where.
I'm for supporting shooters and gun owners regardless of what they shoot in the course of their career, that is where membership constancy and integrity lies.
The organisation of disciplines should be secondary to the representation of shooters, that is where the opportunity for a single body lies.
Come on Bambi get some
Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad
dromia wrote:Well if we all have a can't do attitude the nothing will be achieved.
I also think its a perception thing amongst shooters, you seem to see shooting by discipline, I and most of the shooters I've known over the years and I deal with dozens a week see it from the perspective of people who shoot. We shoot many different disciplines, I shoot military, small bore, 7.3 pistol, BPCR, ML, clay pigeons, live quarry, air rifle/Bell target and I'm a collector amongst other shooting interests and I do all these almost on a monthly basis. OK I may be a jack of many trades and a master of none but I'm into shooting and owning guns as are all the other shooters I know. To cover all these interests we have the NRA, NSRA, CPA, HBSA, BASC, MLAGB plus sundry other specialist clubs.
From a shooters point of view that is lunacy
That is the fundamental attitudinal problem with the organisations, the national bodies represent disciplines, not shooters and gunowners.
Its is about people not competitions or disciplines.
Until our sector gets that separation clear and responds to it we will never get any where.
I'm for supporting shooters and gun owners regardless of what they shoot in the course of their career, that is where membership constancy and integrity lies.
The organisation of disciplines should be secondary to the representation of shooters that is where the opportunity for a single body lies.
Well said!
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.”
Actually, what Dromia is proposing could be run alongside the current organisations. It's not taking anything away from them but instead it's concentrating the human aspect of shooting.
So, the question is, how would it be structured and set up?
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.”
dromia wrote:Well if we all have a can't do attitude then nothing will be achieved.
I also think its a perception thing amongst shooters, you seem to see shooting by discipline. I and most of the shooters I've known over the years and I deal with dozens a week, see it from the perspective of people who shoot. We shoot many different disciplines. I shoot military, small bore, 7.3 pistol, BPCR, ML, clay pigeons, live quarry, air rifle/Bell target and I'm a collector amongst other shooting interests and I do all these almost on a monthly basis. OK I may be a jack of many trades and a master of none but I'm into shooting and owning guns as are all the other shooters I know. To cover all these interests we have the NRA, NSRA, CPA, HBSA, BASC, MLAGB plus sundry other specialist clubs.
From a shooters point of view that is lunacy
That is the fundamental attitudinal problem with the organisations, the national bodies represent disciplines, not shooters and gunowners.
Its is about people not competitions or disciplines.
Until our sector gets that separation clear and responds to it we will never get any where.
I'm for supporting shooters and gun owners regardless of what they shoot in the course of their career, that is where membership constancy and integrity lies.
The organisation of disciplines should be secondary to the representation of shooters, that is where the opportunity for a single body lies.
