Police confiscated my 150 year old muzzle loader.

[Spiggy]

Although I surrendered my shotgun permit thirty year ago when I moved from Norfolk to London ( I sold my guns at the same time ), I did retain a very old family heirloom for display above the fireplace purposes. This gun was a double barrelled muzzle loader that used copper percussion caps to fire it. I don't believe that these caps are available any more even if I wanted them ( which I don't ). Also, one of the guns nipples for locating a cap is broken off, so, all in all, it is only suitable as an ornament.

I have now moved back into the countryside and wish to resume shooting. However, earlier this year the police confiscated the gun when they visited responding to a call from me about an intruder in my garden. They are now threatening to charge me.

Is not a gun like the above legal ?

[IainWR]

Maybe.

Age alone does not make a firearm an antique. If you can post details of exactly what it is (photos also help) an answer may be straightforward. As you say it's 150 years old, I suspect you have evidence of that - does the gun have maker's name and date of manufacture inscribed on it?

If it came to a charge, the evidence of what's written on the gun would become available, and that would settle the issue one way or another.

Unfortunately, contravention of S1 or S2 Firearms Act 1968 is an absolute offence ie it is not a defence that you didn't know the item fell under control of those (though ignorance may be mitigation).

Iain

[John MH]

Check out Chapter 8 of this: Home Office Guidance

Old firearms which should benefit from exemption as antiques

8.9. Pre-1939 firearms to benefit from exemption as antiques are as follows:

(a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
(b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rimfire cartridge other than .22 inch or .23 inch (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
(c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (these include pin-fire and needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);
(d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which retain their original chambering;
(e) Shotguns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges (expressed in imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2 and 2 inch only), 8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 bore, 1 ¼ bore and 1 ½ bore, and vintage punt guns and shotguns with bores greater than 10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles in
these bores.

[DL.]

On the up side, now that you've joined a forum full of potential buddies, someone might send you a cake with a file in it.

[Spiggy]

Maybe.

Age alone does not make a firearm an antique. If you can post details of exactly what it is (photos also help) an answer may be straightforward. As you say it's 150 years old, I suspect you have evidence of that - does the gun have maker's name and date of manufacture inscribed on it?

If it came to a charge, the evidence of what's written on the gun would become available, and that would settle the issue one way or another.

Unfortunately, contravention of S1 or S2 Firearms Act 1968 is an absolute offence ie it is not a defence that you didn't know the item fell under control of those (though ignorance may be mitigation).

Iain

Thanks for your helpful reply. I can't for the life of me recall if there were any inscription on the gun.
It just used to hang over the fireplace gathering cobwebs and wood ash. Of course, though, the moment I'll get to see the bugger again I'll make due notes.

Cheers.

[Spiggy]

On the up side, now that you've joined a forum full of potential buddies, someone might send you a cake with a file in it.

Bugger the file, I've got a good lawyer ; just send the cake................anything with chocolate and glacé cherries will do !

[Spiggy]

Check out Chapter 8 of this: Home Office Guidance

Old firearms which should benefit from exemption as antiques

8.9. Pre-1939 firearms to benefit from exemption as antiques are as follows:

(a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
(b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rimfire cartridge other than .22 inch or .23 inch (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
(c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (these include pin-fire and needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);
(d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which retain their original chambering;
(e) Shotguns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges (expressed in imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2 and 2 inch only), 8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 bore, 1 ¼ bore and 1 ½ bore, and vintage punt guns and shotguns with bores greater than 10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles in
these bores.

Thanks for this, amigo. It seems like muzzle loaders are exempt. Cheers !

[Gaz]

Hang on. Surely pre-1939 muzzle loaders aren't all given a blanket exemption now?

Spiggy - section 58 of the Firearms Act 1968 will help in reading and interpreting the Home Office Guidance above.

[John MH]

If you don't intend to shoot it it does.

[Stephen]

AlthoughI did retain a very old family heirloom for display above the fireplace purposes. This gun was a double barrelled muzzle loader that used copper percussion caps to fire it. I don't believe that these caps are available any more even if I wanted them ( which I don't ). Also, one of the guns nipples for locating a cap is broken off, so, all in all, it is only suitable as an ornament.

That gun is unambiguously an antique firearm kept as a curio or ornament and is therefore completely exempt from all the provisions of the various firearms acts. I am appalled but not surprised, given the abysmal knowledge of firearms exhibited by many police officers, that they threatened to prosecute you. I know I am coning to this debate a little late but if you are still having problems please PM me and I may be assist with the correct words to be used in a formal letter to the police.