Is there any point continuing as-is?

[Mr_Logic]

I have a Savage F/TR in 223 which has the intended use of F/TR shooting right out to the 1000 yard mark.

Seeing Laurie's excellent write up on how to get this working well, I note that my freebore seems to be lacking, since if I seat a 90 VLD 0.010 off the lands, then my COL is approx 2.500" (measured to the ogive I'm seating at 1.959")

Given that this will result in quite compressed loads and pressure to get the velocity needed, should I give up at this point and get either a .308 rifle or get the Savage rebarrelled with something more suitable?

Many thanks!

[dromia]

You could have the throat reworked to give you a bit more distance to the lands to help you seat the bullet out of the case more.

[Sim G]

I'm not an F/TR shooter, I'd love to have the time and funds to travel and shoot, put I'll give you my two pennies (See Sandgroper, pennies, this is Blighty! :lol: )

In a quality, accurate rifle like your Savage, is .223 a 1000 yard cartridge? Yes. Is .223 good enough to compete at a high competition level at 1000 yards? I say no. There will doubtless be those that disagree and will quote the esteemed Mr Holland as proof. But to my mind, taking the cartridge to something that it was never intended to be borders on the wreckless. Likewise, I've heard of shooters in F/TR trying to take the .308 beyond 3000 fps. Again, not what it was designed for. Other cartridges exist to achieve this performance.

I can see where this "performance goal" stems from, that as one of the big problems in the days of Practical Pistol. Everyone was looking for an edge. Turning 9mm into a "Major" caliber caused more than one or two pistols to come apart under pressure!!!!

.308 is a better long range cartridge than .223, but I fear in the realms of where you're competing, you may very well end up in an "arms race" with tha caliber as well........

[dromia]

The .303" British is a fine 1000 yrd cartridge.

If I was to get a 1000yrd rifle built it would be in 303" British.

Sim G is right in that there are too many people out there trying to get inappropriate cartridges to do that for which they were not designed. The right tool for the job always helps to make the job easier.

[dodgyrog]

Hi Dromia, why do you think people don't use it? I agree with you that is a much better calibre for 'reaching out' to the longest ranges.

[dromia]

Hi Dromia, why do you think people don't use it? I agree with you that is a much better calibre for 'reaching out' to the longest ranges.

Fashion methinks.

That and along with conservatism and narrowness of thinking of the NRA/target rifle fraternity.

Historically TR was about the miltary rifle and cartridge of the day, when the SLR came in it freed up rifle development but they still persisted with the 7.62 NATO getting their ammunition good and bad from RG.

So new shooters coming to the firing point see a plethora of 7.62s and go with that.

The 7.62s parent the 30-06 is another fine long range cartridge that will easily drive a 155gn MK at 3000+ fps. But the need for the military to have shorter actions has now become a fashion and a fad in civilian shooting circles.

[Mr_Logic]

I accept that neither 223 nor 308 is the ideal cartridge for shooting 1000 yards. Given that those are the F/TR calibres though, not much else I can use!

So I guess I wonder if I persevere with the current setup, with 80 gr bullets, or 90s at velocities at about 2750, or rebarrel, or get the throat worked on (how good is a Savage target rifle barrel?) or just bin the whole thing, get a .308 and be done?

[Sim G]

I have a Savage in .223. A model 12 BVSS, apart from the bolt handle and stock, it's standard. The furthest I've had it is 800 yds and banged the v-bull all day. And that was with 69gn SMK's. The Savage is an outstanding rifle and some very knowledgable people reckon they are probably the most accurate, out of the box rifle available.

I'd vote to stick with it and go with load development.......... carefully!

[dromia]

I've always rated the Savage I've a penchant for model 1899s underlevers. I've had quiet a few bolt action Savages through my hands over the years and they have all been first rate rifles.

The current Savage Arms 12F/TR Precision Target Rifle Series, 18154, is exceptional in my opinion never mind how cheap it is. I've shot a couple and they have been excellent even down to a first rate trigger.

My only regret is there are so few of them around its hard to get an action, ever wondered why there are so many Remmy 700 actions around?

I've been toying with building an F class rifle as my eyes are not doing to well with the open sights any more, but have gone cold on the idea after breaking in the 6 x 47 Lapua. However I've been rethinking this with the Savage, its an all in one package relatively inexpensive and I wouldn't feel disadvantaged at all on the firing point.

Still it would be nice to have the actions to build a chambering of choice rifle. I'm not a big 308 fan.

[Gun Pimp]

Sim G,

You ask - is the 233 good enough to compete at high competition level at 1000 yards?

Wait until you read about Laurie Holland's shoot in the 1000 yard GBFCA League shoot at Blair Atholl - F Class competition doesn't get much higher (or harder) in the UK. You can read about it in June's Target Shooter magazine.

And, don't forget, Laurie is the only one shooting a 223 at this level. What if the top 308 F/TR shooters switched to 223? I don't think 308 would get a look in if they did!

Mr Logic - get your 223 'throated' to shoot the 90 gn Berger. Laurie's overall cartridge length is 2.7 inches.

Vince