"Shot Pistols" (A class of gun I didn't know about)

[poll007]

Yesterday i collected a Serena .410 shotgun (or so i though) which is pictured below.

I bought it as a section 1 .410 which i had a slot for as it only has a 20" barrel. the authorization for which was for target shooting. the plan being to use it for Target shotgun (so shooting paper targets with slug) as well as possibly the worlds worst PSG gun.

Today i got a phonecall from kent police to inform me that that i do not have authorization to own this firearm and so my hand it in to my local RFD the reason being that the gun is listed on their system as a "shot pistol" and not a "shotgun".

"shot pistol" wasn't something had seen before in the legislation and so i asked if they could sent it to me which they have (what was sent has been pasted below)

Here is the legislation covering the conditions permitting the use of a .410 shot pistol. It does not allow a .410 shot pistol to be conditioned for target shooting under the auspices of a club. This is different to a .410 section 1 shotgun.

2.9 While overall length is not a relevant factor in regard to the classification of traditional single and double-barrelled smooth-bore guns and repeating shotguns with a bolt or lever-action, any such guns with barrels under 24 inches in length are subject to control under section 1 of the 1968 Act.

4. Quarry Shooting – Shot Pistols

The *calibre SHOT PISTOL shall be used only in connection with SHOOTING VERMIN WITHIN OR AROUND BUILDINGS on land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

Finally the Serena .410 shot pistol is described by the manufacturers as just that - ‘ A SHOT PISTOL’ and not a shotgun .The gun was previously held on FAC for vermin control only by the previous owners and that again gives an indication to its intended use.

Sadly for me this means i cant keep the gun (unless i can find a permission to shoot on very quickly and get it signed off by kent police) but i though this would be a good piece of info to post in case anyone else is looking at a Serena or similar .410 "not shotgun"

[Rarms]

I think you could argue that it has a stock, and so it is not a pistol.

Someone in front a a computer has identified it as a pistol. A shot pistol is literally a smooth bore pistol and might be used for ratting etc..

The brace at the rear could be a shoulder stock making it a shotgun as long as it conforms to the overall lengths needed for a sec.1 shotgun

[poll007]

I think you could argue that it has a stock, and so it is not a pistol.

Someone in front a a computer has identified it as a pistol. A shot pistol is literally a smooth bore pistol and might be used for ratting etc..

The brace at the rear could be a shoulder stock making it a shotgun as long as it conforms to the overall lengths needed for a sec.1 shotgun

I am actually going down this route now- I have sent an email off to the FLD that i believe an error was made when the gun was originally put on a previous owners licence.

I short-section 4 refers to "shot pistols" as being .410 or 9mm flobert firearms and being covered my section 5 (1) (aba) of the 1968 act which in turn is the subsection that defines "short firearms" as being those with a barrel and oal of less than 30cm/60cm. meaning it should not apply to my gun.

I have also highlighted that even if it was originally advertised as a "shot pistol" back in the 50's when it was made that this was prior to there being specific legislation referring to "shot pistols".The 1st mention of "shot pistosl" in legislation came with the 1968 act.

[Sim G]

I believe there are a number of variations of the Serena and they all revolve around the barrel/OAL of the gun.

With a 20” barrel, what’s the OAL? More than 24”, then it’s a s1 shotgun.

Less than, and it’s a short firearm, subject to s5, but, due to the exemption in the 97 Amendment Act, they are categorised as a shot pistol for killing, so able to be held on s1.

There are even some that had 24” barrels and are held on s2 certificates.

All OAL measurements are taken with a removable stock, removed. I’d be careful how much of a fight you want to make this as the “weapon type” is well established.

[poll007]

I believe there are a number of variations of the Serena and they all revolve around the barrel/OAL of the gun.

With a 20” barrel, what’s the OAL? More than 24”, then it’s a s1 shotgun.

Less than, and it’s a short firearm, subject to s5, but, due to the exemption in the 97 Amendment Act, they are categorised as a shot pistol for killing, so able to be held on s1.

There are even some that had 24” barrels and are held on s2 certificates.

All OAL measurements are taken with a removable stock, removed. I’d be careful how much of a fight you want to make this as the “weapon type” is well established.

I have highlighted all 3 version of the firearm in my email to the FLD. As it happens Holts have sold all 3 versions in the past all listed as "shot Pistol" however they admit that this was just intended as a description based on the appearance rather than them being "shot pistols" based on legislation.

The section 2 versions have 20" barrels with 4" muzzle breaks permanently attached. I have suggested that if they disagree with me on the legislation that I can pin a brake on and extend the stock to bring it over the 24"/40" to be section 2 instead. (though the FEO said he didn't think a section 1 could be made into a section 2. I think he was confused with the 2016 section 5 guidance so I listed some examples of sction1 to section 2 conversions).

The OAL measuring regarding the stock has always interested me. In this case with the 20" barrel version has a ~33" OAL with the stock but without it would be just a hair under "24 without which could be an issue (if so pinning the stock would in theory be a suitable solution). That being said a lot of common firearms would fall afoul of the law with their stocks removed whilst still being in a fireable condition. Most semi/pump shotguns that don't have a spring in the stock can have the stock taken off and in theory still be shot. The same goes for a Ruger 10/22 if your barrel is 16" the gun is fireable with an oal of only 23" (something you need to be wary of if you buy a bullpup stock for it).

In theory the OAL is based on the intended use so I could see the FLD arguing that the stock on the Serena is too easy to remove and so shouldn't be counted in the OAL.

The FLD know I haven't done anything illegal purposely and the gun is with my RFD until it is all sorted. so the worst case scenario at the moment for me is the hold firm on it being a shot pistol in which case Holts have already offered to resell it with no fees. I could have my RFD sell it or scrap it and just take the loss. Or I can see how quickly I can get a permission to use it on (Though I'm worried any application for a permission now would be seen as illegitimate by the FLD even though it was something I had planed on doing already)