Advice please on choice from a .223 shortlist.

[Itskeith]

Background Info:
I’m busy convalescing here and have plenty of time to do some research, so have read pretty much everything here on .223 / first rifle suggestions…

This is getting a little ahead of myself I know, as I am moving in a few weeks time, and expect to be close to a rifle club that does small and full-bore to 100 yds. I haven’t actually shot full-bore yet, but did a a few weeks of .22LR 30 years ago – enough to know that I enjoyed it, a LOT. Then life took a different turn.
Excited about the chance to learn something new.

I’ve read the thread on the Lead ban and so thought I’d have some fun with these for 18 months, and then see where things go...

I’m planning on shooting .22LR. prone jacket / sling plus probably get one full-bore rifle.

The plan from what little I understand (but open to suggestions), is:
- use a .223 (cheaper to feed / more practice & less recoil than .308)
- use factory ammo (at least for now)
- will be used for target shooting only and competing (mostly against myself). i.e. No stalking or varminting.
- I will be able to shoot it at the local range to 100 yds. But would like to use the same rifle to 300 yds and maybe eventually 600 yds (even if I need to change the load etc).

The brief: I’m looking for a .223 rifle ...
(happy to change belief system depending on others experience here).
- much prefer look and feel of wood and laminate over tacticool / synthetic.
- budget say £500-£1000. Realise that at the lower end this would include a scope, and at the higher end probably won’t incl a scope.
- prefer something older and better quality, than newer and noticeably less well built.
- think I’d be happy with bolt action single shot (no need for magazine)!
- not sure if I’d want to use it with iron sights / scope. Or sling / bipod. Maybe it's a bit early to decide all this until I’ve got some experience, but I’m busy convalescing with plenty of time to think. Others experience is always useful and i may as well use the time to start reducing the short-list / what to keep an eye out for to test.

I guess I should be looking at 1:8 or 1:9 and 24-26”+ barrel???

I’m guessing that rules out some of the old wooden stock with too slow twists .223’s: E.g.
- Steyr
- Tikka M585 (1:12) - which is a shame as I really like the look of these and they seem to have a very good reputation!
- Sako 85 (1:12)
- Ruger M77 (1:12)
- Jaeger 10 (1:12)

Which leaves a shortlist of:
CZ527 1:9 22/24” barrel (avoid pre 2012 1:12)
Howa 1500 1:9
Kimber 84M 1:9 22/24” barrel (beware some 1:12)
Savage 12 1:9 or 1:7?
Tikka T3 Need to research twist rates / barrel lengths.
Tikka T3X 1:8

Which would you choose?
Any other .223’s I should be considering?

Some general questions:
- is there any noticeable difference between the Tikka 3 & 3X from a beginners perspective
(presumably the older one would be better Value for money hence more to spend on glass and ammo).
* can a Bipod or sling be used on a Kimber 84M?
- can something labelled as a ‘Varmint’ or ‘Super varmint’, be equally suitable as a good target rifle?

Is it better to go for £500 rifle and £1000 ammo. Or £1000 rifle and £500 ammo in year 1.

Did anyone go for the cheaper rifle option and wish they had saved up for a bit longer? (as I’ll have at least 6 mths probation / FAC time to deal with and a .22LR to develop skills with, plus hopefully club rifles to borrow / hire, it is not exactly like I’ll be missing out by waiting a bit longer)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.
Keith

[Pippin89]

Shooting "proper" TR as I call it, with a sling, you will be better off with a 308 / 7.62. For the simple reason that is what everyone shoots and the rifles are easier to come by. Its perfectly possible to shoot TR and F class (scope and bipod) with the same rifle as we do that with our club rifle. But it will be far easier to buy a TR rifle and convert it also shoot F class than the other way round. I would suggest, for your budget, speaking to Fultons at Bisley. Either in person or by phone if you're further away, and see what they have. The upper end of your budget will get you a reasonable Musgrave or Paramount I would have thought complete with target stock, hand stop, open sights etc. Then you just need to buy a scope and a bipod to add F class to your repertoire.

[Itskeith]

Thanks Pippin and much appreciated - lots of logic to that.

Woke up this morning with an obvious omission to the maths already in my head.

In year 1 (and in addition to .22LR) would you go for:
£500 rifle and £1000 ammo?
£750 rifle and £750 ammo?
£500 rifle and £1000 ammo?

Thoughts and comments on .223 still appreciated.

[1066]

Not everyone's cup of tea but here's another .223.
https://rifleshootermagazine.co.uk/arti ... est-review

Personally I would wait and see how it goes before jumping in with both feet. You may find you quickly get fed up with the prone/sling/aperture sight type shooting - mobility/eyes/boredom etc. There's' a whole world of different shooting disciplines out there once you scratch the surface.

Unfortunately, unlike maybe golf, where if you can't get on with a particular putter, you just buy something else, changing a rifle can be a long and frustrating process. First you must sell your rifle, tell the police you have sold it, ask the police for permission to buy another, once granted, maybe 6 months later you can start looking for another rifle, once bought you need to tell the police you have bought it.

If you're serious about shooting - rather than just having a bang with your mates, I think you will need to spend more that £500 on a rifle. There are plenty of £3-500 old 7.62 target rifles about, many built on 80 year old actions any possibly many thousands of rounds through the barrel but unlikely to be competitive against
newer equipment.

[Pippin89]

Thanks Pippin and much appreciated - lots of logic to that.

Woke up this morning with an obvious omission to the maths already in my head.

In year 1 (and in addition to .22LR) would you go for:
£500 rifle and £1000 ammo?
£750 rifle and £750 ammo?
£500 rifle and £1000 ammo?

Thoughts and comments on .223 still appreciated.

.308 target rounds can be had for around £1 a round. The last batch I bought was GGG 147gr FMJ's which were £18.50 for 20. They are absolutely fine at 300 and 600 yards as I have shot both with them. So £1000 for ammo would be 1000 rounds which is a lot. Smallbore (.22LR) I can easily do that in a year but fullbore I typically shoot around 200-300 rounds. Obviously completely down to how much you shoot. You are also unlikely to get 1000 rounds of fullbore ammo on your first grant so you wouldnt be able to buy it all in one go anyway.
See how much you are shooting and budget from there. But I would ere on the side of spending more on the rifle. You will likely have that for several years.

[WelshShooter]

The CZ 527 rifles can be labelled as "varmint" and Tikka can be related to as "varmint" or "super varmint". Back when I bought my CZ 527 varmint just over ten years ago, I came to learn that varmint meant heavy barrel (ie just thicker and heavier to soak up heat) and in my case, the faster 1:9 twist barrel. For the Tikka variant, varmint meant the same as the CZ offering whereas super varmint was in stainless steel with an integrated picatinny rail on the receiver. These qualities make the rifle very well suited for target shooting.

At the time, the CZ 527 varmint in 1:9 twist rate only came with synthetic/kevlar stock option. Newer versions of this rifle come in all types of stock including wood, laminate or synthetic so if you're going new, then you have the choice of stock material to choose from.

My rifle was good bang for buck, I picked it up used for £600 if I recall and it's great for target shooting which is all I use it for. It happily shoots and stabilises 52gr to 69gr match bullets so no complaints there. Its got a 5 round detachable magazine but I also use one of 1066's single use magazine sleds which is perfect if you like feeding one at a time.

Based on your list of rifles, and having previously owned a Tikka T3 (albeit in 308) and currently owning my CZ 527, I can definitely recommend both these rifles for target shooting. To answer your latter question about cost of ammo/rifle, if you have to use some "ammo money" to secure a nicer rifle such as those mentioned, I would definitely spend the extra on the rifle if it ticks all your boxes. If you don't get on with a rifle, it takes a lot of time these days to sell on, update your FAC and purchase another, so you may as well get the rifle that you can afford now.

[Itskeith]

Thanks everyone.

Much appreciated and plenty of food for thought.

[Itskeith]

Thanks everyone.

Much appreciated and plenty of food for thought.

PS. Def won't be buying new.

[Sim G]

CZ527 is a fantastic piece of kit. 1/9” chopped to 20” will still launch 69gn bullets out to 600 for a worthwhile group and lob them artillery like much further on an ETR.

Mini Mauser action, laminate stock, cold hammer forged barrel. And they are cheap!

[1066]

CZ527 is a fantastic piece of kit. 1/9” chopped to 20” will still launch 69gn bullets out to 600 for a worthwhile group and lob them artillery like much further on an ETR.

Mini Mauser action, laminate stock, cold hammer forged barrel. And they are cheap!

And --- Unfortunately, for some unknow reason I believe they have now stopped making the 527. I think it's great little action, especially with the set trigger.