Developing a .404 Jeffery Cast Bullet Plinking / Practice Load

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

I’m currently looking at ways of developing a low cost plinking load for my .404 Jeffery.

This probably means going with cast bullets. Unfortunately the chances of me ever having a location to cast my own are rather slim so it looks like resizing bullets is the way forward.

My current plan is to resize .430 commercially available cast lead bullets down to .424 and start with this 300gr which I have 100 on order:



I use .44 cal bullets from this maker for my 44 Mag lever action in 240gr RNFP and 255gr SWCGC with some decent success.

Anyway, I managed to get a .427” and a .424” for sizing down the .430” as cast bullets and I try with the 240gr and 255gr bullets. Sample of 1 so don’t so more experimentation needed but so far signs are good. These are 2 stage resized bullets:



Both seem to have some lube left, something of a crimping groove and lengthened a bit over 0.2mm (0.008”) so that bodes well (I think though I would welcome comments).

Next stage / decisions are:

1) decide whether to give a bit of extra lube with Liquid Alox or go the whole hog and try and home powder coat
2) See if the it is possible to get a gas check onto that 300gr Shell House Bullet

Powder is likely to be Reload Swiss RS14 which is a substitute for Trail Boss.

Thoughts and advice much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[dromia]

Why gas check and why more lube.

Powder coating, again why?

Soft plumbers lead with 1-2% tin along with the crucial good bullet fit is all you need.

What are the measured throat and groove diameters of your rifle?

I seem to be having a deja vu moment as though my reply is repeating its self, we have had this discussion already by email I seem to recall.

[Scrumbag]

Why gas check and why more lube.

Powder coating, again why?

Soft plumbers lead with 1-2% tin along with the crucial good bullet fit is all you need.

What are the measured throat and groove diameters of your rifle?

I seem to be having a deja vu moment as though my reply is repeating its self, we have had this discussion already by email I seem to recall.

Hi Dromia,

As I replied to your email: It is not an option for me to cast / have made my own bullets. There is no way in hell where I live I can fire up even a small smelting pot and I don't think Dodgyrog or Shellhouse are able / willing to help either (any other ideas on who might be able to help with casting? Even if I bought the mould from someone like Accurate in the US?). So, I can't do what you suggest.

I can get away with powder coating
I can gas check on my reloading press
I can coat bullets with Alox / extra lube

That is why I asked about them, they are feasible for me. I'm sure what you are suggesting would work really well. But I can't find a way of implementing it I'm afraid so isn't any use to me.

Thanks anyway,

Scrummy

[dromia]

Even with your chosen commercial bullet my questions still stand.

What are you seeking from adding those processes?

[Scrumbag]

Even with your chosen commercial bullet my questions still stand.

What are you seeking from adding those processes?

Being able to push them a bit faster / stand a higher pressure and not get leading.

404 Jeff jacketed loads would normally be 400gr and 2,200 + fps.

Now for a little more realistic experience I would like to push the bullet a little faster for some more recoil (I know it won't be as much but close would be welcome)

Hence why gas checks / powder coat.

I've got 100 commercial bullets to try on order so I will try to see where I get with just resized and then I might end up doing more to them.

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

Bengal Bullets do something like this:



https://www.bengalbullets.com/shop/p/40 ... rain-lfngc (not my image).

Which looks good and apparently can be loaded to jacketed speeds and pressures.

Scrummy

[dromia]

Bullet lubes do not prevent leading, bullet fit and soft alloys stop leading, lead is a lubricant in itself.

Lube in grooves acts as an "hyrdaulic" shockabsorber compressing in the grooves to help maintain the bullet's integrity as pressure builds and the bullet is forced into the rifling.

Your coatings alox, powder and the like take up some slack to give better bullet fit but really do nothing to stop leading.

Gas checks are to stop the bullet stripping in the rifling at high velocities and fast twists like the 6.5 swede. they add nothing at sub 1,800 -2,000 fps and as I have said don't stop leading but stop bullet stripping, which if it happens could lead to leading if hard alloys are being used.

Lead bullets need a totally different mind set from condom bullets.

Your original post stated "I’m currently looking at ways of developing a low cost plinking load for my .404 Jeffery."

[Scrumbag]

Thanks for that Dromia.

Yes, do want a cheaper plinking load for .404 Jeff.

In terms of projectile costs, a Shellhouse 300gr .430" bullet costs £0.16
An inexpensive .423 jacketed bullet regularly costs ~£2 (You can do a little better with either MME when Pete is doing a run or occasionally you get Hornady DGS on sale but that's still ~£1.50 projectile cost).

Add ~50p / shot of powder for regular jacket loads and suddenly a few 100 round batches of something cheaper to shoot gives you room for effort and amortizing a bit of kit

So Dromia, is it worth me even trying to get those resized .424 300gr bullets to shoot in my .404 Jeff or not bother? If it is worth a try, what would you recommend doing with them?

[dromia]

I would recommend giving them a try as is post sizing, if you are just sizing to the recommended diameter rather than actual diameter then you could be lucky.

If you are not lucky then at least you will have some information to work from.

Proper bullet fit is the key to accuracy and no leading. Adding all the bells whistles and current fashion trends like powder coatings are at best a third hand elastoplast that may mitigate some symptoms but will in no way address the cause of any problems.

Interestingly most of the top cast bullet bench rest shooters will use high antimony bearing (very hard) alloy to get the benefits of its excellent castability and fill out giving extremely uniform bullets.

However they will have a mould cut to exactly fit their chamber/throat rifling with their chosen alloy or in extreme cases have barrels cut to fit their bullets, either way with bullet fit the alloy becomes irrelevant.

Unless we have that happy marriage of bullet and barrel then hard alloys are not an option and leading will occur, soft lead alloys have an instant fit at time of obturation, managed by the bullet "lube", giving lead free accuracy.

[bradaz11]

what dia is your bore? although you're sizing down, are you just going to the fmj dia, or actually you're correct fit dia?

unfortunately shellhouse is a comercial manufacturer, they can't just use lee moulds, If you're willing to drop the money on a die to go with their machinery I'm sure they'll seel you correct bullets, but they aren't going to invest in one for one customer.

so are you trying to make a plinking load (ie low power, easy to shoot lots of at a middling accuracy) or are you wanting to find a cheaper source of bullet and happy to try lead (ie get close to full velocity and behaviour of the expensive bangs)?

if you just want to mess around with plinking, then that bullet, sized appropriately and a few grains of fast pistol powder will get the job done and get you punching paper.