Taking a firearms manufacturer to the Small Claims Court

[Blackstuff]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone has experience of taking a firearms manufacturer to the small claims court over a firearm that doesn't work properly after they have refused to refund/replace the gun?

I don't want to go into the details, i'm only after information regarding the court process.

Presumably I will need to provide evidence of the fault with the gun (which relates to its operation), obviously I will not be able to do this in a court room, so would video evidence be the way? Just wondering, as I know the burden of proof is significantly lower in a consumer case than criminal, but I'm sure the other side will allege i've tapered with the footage/rigged it in someway.

If you'd prefer to PM me thats fine

[MistAgain]

Its all a question of costs . Some of the lower courts do have video facilities , but you will have to make sure that you are allocated a courtroom that does .
If you or a friend make the video ,the manufacturer will be able to plant the doubt that you are not qualified to make a vidoe suitable for court evidence .

Simple answe to that is hire an expert witness who is firearms accredited in the court system . This is not cheap and you still have to make sure you have a court room with video facilities

Really the best option is to hire the expert witness , get him to take a series of still pictures that show the problem , then he writes a report .
If he is really good , get advice from him first before doing anything.
He will still have to attend court to give evidence and be questioned .

There are some very good experts out there , but also some who are not really good .
If you need any info , just drop me a message .

[Dellboy]

did you pay for any of this with a credit card ? even a deposit

[David TS]

I can recommend an expert, PM me if you want details :)

[Blackstuff]

I'm fortunate enough to have a friend who is an expert in such matters and provided evidence at some high level inquiries. If he can't/won't do it I'll be in touch, thanks gents.

But to clarify, it would be a case of providing that sort of video evidence (it requires the operation of the action so only video would work)

Dellboy - Unfortunately not, all debit card. I haven't made that mistake since!

[Sim G]

I imagine you’ll need several experts. One who is qualified in the design and manufacture of firearms, perhaps another that will present the evidence In comparison to other same types and that will be on top of your own counsel.

And remember that whatever test are performed, the defence will want access to to the firearm for their own expert to examine and then the other to testify why it’s not what your expert has said. And then the defence counsel. All of this, if found against you, you might have to pay for. Even if found in your favour, you still might have to pay for other sides experts and counsel. You could be in for 10’s of thousands.

Lodging a claim in County Court is actually quite cheap and easy in the first instance, it’s the pursuance of the action where things get really expensive…

[Sim G]

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

[Dark Skies]

Did you buy the firearm directly from the manufacturer, or from a shop? If the latter, then your contract is with the person that sold you the firearm, therefore it's their obligation under consumer law to provide a remedy (not the manufacturer). It's also a lot easier and cheaper to get redress through a small claims court with the seller than a manufacturer, due to the latter's better financial / legal resources.

[Martiniman]

It’s a simple process using the small claims court for net values under £5k. The forms are online; not difficult to fill out and really only request a very straightforward statement of fact from the aggrieved. You don’t need to hire anyone in pursuing your case and in my experience it leads to a very prompt resolution, especially when firearms are involved! You would do well to speak to the Cirizens Advice Bureau for further consumer information and how to write your grievance. Key though is proof you have tried resolving the issue with the seller. They may suggest a reconciliation meeting but if you have proof the other party hasn’t engaged with you, it can be side stepped. I can confirm you can go after a seller even after 2 years has lapsed. Additionally, if purchased on a credit card, you can also consider a section 75 claim via the credit card provider. This would refund up to 100%.

[Blackstuff]

Thanks for the input gents. My understanding of the process is much as outlined by Martiniman.

The company is a small UK based manufacturer/retailer (which I purchased the gun directly from), i'm not 'going after Smith and Wesson' From my reading of the online material, the costs each side are limited by the process are £90 per day for the claimant/defendants time, £750 max if either party employ an expert witness and then reasonable costs for attending the court.

The total potential claim would be for <£2,500 and as such I can't see how it would be proportionate for a SCC to require several experts to provide evidence on what amounts to a seller being defensive about their own product and refusing to acknowledge that there is a fault with it. They may of course decide that the matter is 'too complex' (oh no, guns!) and refuse to hear it at a SCC, in which case i'd imagine the cost craziness could spiral.

The manufacturer has only just started to take the matter seriously, finally responding as they are required by the process this morning (this has been on going for 3 years), so hopefully we can get some kind of mediation sorted and avoid the whole thing.